Four Years Sober Today: Facing Possible Loss Without Escape

“How do you finally stop worrying? You realize that the version of yourself that will be able to handle every situation that might arise in your life will be born in the precise moment that situation comes to be. No matter where your path might take you, or where you go, the version of yourself that you will need in those moments will emerge right as you need it and not a second before. You cannot call upon all of the parts of yourself to exist at once. Different versions of you are needed for various aspects of your life. Find peace in knowing that you are more than one thing, and within the layers of who you are-both visible and invisible-exists a strength that is equal to or more powerful than anything you may come to face.”

– Brianna Wiest, The Pivot Year


Today marks four years of continuous sobriety—a milestone that feels both miraculous and grounding. At 34, I was so consumed by alcohol that I developed alcoholic liver disease, yet here I am, sober with a healthy liver. It’s a victory I honor deeply, but I also hold space for the truth: today is just another day in the lifelong journey of recovery. Sobriety isn’t a magical fix; it doesn’t shield us from life’s hardships. But it does offer clarity, resilience, and the capacity to face life as it is.

This clarity has been my anchor this past week as I navigate a heart-wrenching reality. My 85-year-old mother in Costa Rica fell and broke her hip, requiring surgery. Since then, complications have set in, and yesterday she was found unresponsive. At nearly nine months pregnant, I can’t travel to be by her side. I can’t hold her hand, speak to her, or comfort her. Instead, I sit here, folding tiny baby clothes and waiting for WhatsApp updates from my older sisters.

With my momma.

The uncertainty is crushing. Thoughts crash over me like relentless waves: Was our last conversation truly the last? Did I hug her for the final time when I said goodbye? Will she ever meet my daughter, Amara? The pain radiates through my spirit, raw and unyielding. But amidst the ache, I realize something profound—there is no pull to escape this grief through alcohol. It wouldn’t lessen the hurt, nor would it honor the love I carry for her.

Reflecting on my father’s death in 2018, I see how sobriety has transformed my ability to endure loss or the possibility of it. Back then, I traveled to Costa Rica in a drunken haze, narrowly sobering up for his funeral. I was riddled with shame—sneaking aguardiente to numb myself, only for my mother to find it the next morning. She looked at me with disappointment and hissed, “Why are you drinking so much? You’re going to end up like your cousin (who died from drinking).” Her words stung, but my addiction muted their weight.

Now, as I face my mother’s declining health, Brianna Wiest’s words resonate deeply: “The version of yourself that you will need in those moments will emerge right as you need it and not a second before.” Sobriety has given me the tools to face whatever comes next—not with fear or avoidance, but with grace. Whether my mother miraculously recovers (and I’m rooting for that) or these are her final days, I know I can stand in this truth without alcohol, even as it feels like an emotional roller coaster.

Just yesterday, my sisters walked into my mother’s hospital room to find a priest giving her last rites. Yet this morning, she was awake and alert, complaining about a headache and asking for coffee. This roller coaster of emotions, of hope and uncertainty, is exhausting, but I know I am ready to face whatever comes next.

As I move into my fifth year of sobriety, I carry with me self-trust and confidence. Life will continue to test me, but I now meet it with an open heart and steady resolve—because sobriety has shown me that I can.


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“If you have a problem with alcohol, just stop drinking.” Yeah. Okay.

Recently, I overheard someone who clearly knew little about addiction say, “If you have a problem with alcohol, just stop drinking.”

If only it were that simple. People wouldn’t be revolving through treatment facilities, finding support in sobriety groups for years, and wrestling with the relentless pull of addiction if stopping was just a matter of will. This week, I had the chance to share a piece in a writing class led by author Marion Roach Smith, where I spoke candidly about how consuming and difficult it is to live with alcohol addiction.

Check it out below.


After five weeks in rehab, there I was, facing my dismissal day tomorrow. Deep down, there was that familiar, sinking feeling. I felt it every time I tried to convince myself I was heading back to “normal.” I tried to replay everyone’s kind words, but I couldn’t find any comfort in them. Reaching into my bra, I pulled out the sleep meds I’d stashed there, swallowed them quickly, and hoped sleep would take me away from the gnawing sense of impending doom.

The next morning, my friend who’d been looking after Cruz since I’d gone into treatment was there, waiting to take me home. I stepped into the sunlight, and we hugged tightly. It felt so good to be held by someone from the outside world again. We went straight to the grocery store, where the smell of cilantro in the produce aisle made my mouth water. I filled my basket with bright fruits and healthy snacks, determined to keep up the balanced eating habits I’d learned in treatment.

But the drive back to my house was a blur. Though I was sober, my mind felt foggy. My friend came in with me, did a quick sweep of the house to make sure there were no hidden bottles, then hugged me and asked, “Alright, girl, you gonna be good?” I hesitated, my mind spinning, but I forced a nod. “Yeah, it’ll be tough, but I’ll be good.” As I shut the door behind her, I turned and looked around my house, my supposed sanctuary. All I could see was emptiness, the painful echo of broken dreams.

So, it’s just you and me, I thought, staring at the silent rooms. Just me and this house full of ghosts. I went to turn on the TV, but it was dead—I’d fallen into it drunk one night, breaking the cables. I opened my laptop, but immediately shut it again at the sight of a picture of my late boyfriend, smiling and carefree. I moved around the house, from chair to couch, but everywhere I sat felt hollow.

Then, like the first drop of a storm, the thought of drinking slipped into my mind. It quickly spread, filling me with a fiendish desire I couldn’t shake. I knew I shouldn’t, knew it was dangerous. But the rationalizations came fast. I can order a bottle and just hold it, I don’t have to drink it, I told myself as I scrolled through the alcohol delivery app, adding a bottle to my cart. I can pour it down the drain after a few sips, I reasoned as I completed my purchase.

I reactivated my old routine of pretending everything was fine. I called my sister, my voice upbeat. “Hey! Just letting you know I’m finally home … Yeah, it’s definitely weird … I promise I’ll call if anything … Yeah, I’m going to bed early, I’m just so sleepy…” I texted a few friends, letting them know I was “good” and going to “bed.” It was only 7:30 PM. I was not going to bed.

The bottle was in my hands, then at my lips. The burn of alcohol slid down my throat, making me gag; I’d forgotten the sting. I drank straight from the bottle as if I’d stumbled upon water in a desert.

I had left the protective cocoon of treatment—a so-called fortress meant to shield me. I was supposed to emerge as a butterfly, ready to soar, but my wings were still crumpled. I crashed hard. Lying flat on the floor, “Nights in White Satin” by the Moody Blues played on repeat, each verse carving deeper into my soul:

Never reaching the end
Letters I’ve written
Never meaning to send…

I took one last breath, closed my eyes, and let myself slip back under, drowning once more in the dark waters of my addiction.


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When Control Slips Away

“the battle is over 

i’m done fighting myself

stressing over what i’ve done 

or what i should have done 

simply does not help

i want to see myself without pointing fingers 

to move forward with grace 

to see mistakes as lessons 

and allow them to improve 

my future actions

instead of being attached to the past 

i want to peacefully connect to the present”

-Yung Pueblo

This ongoing fight we often find ourselves in goes beyond what this poem alone can express. It’s not just about wrestling with the person we used to be, especially in our case when we drank—the mistakes, the regrets—but also with the uncontrollable forces that shape our lives.

Take this past week, for example. Hurricane Helene brought devastation across the southeastern U.S., and living here in Tampa, near the bay, meant anxiety set in quickly as soon as the news buzzed about a potential hurricane moving up the Gulf of Mexico. I had a plan for my week, but in an instant, that plan no longer mattered. Almost mockingly, I could hear my mother’s voice echoing: “Uno pone y Dios dispone” (we make plans, and then there’s God’s plan).

As the county’s evacuation order rolled out, the frustration bubbled up inside me. The heat of resentment was almost palpable—toward Florida’s climate, what felt like a slow response, even the inconvenience of leaving home. Why can’t evacuation be a calm, organized process instead of this panic? I thought while hurriedly packing Cruz’s things—his food, bed, bones, and snacks—under his watchful gaze.

What I missed this week was an important reminder: it’s crucial to let go of attachment to things we can’t control. Peace comes when we can release that grip. Until we do, we’ll keep fighting—not just against ourselves but against the world around us. My week would have been much easier on my body if I had leaned more on that, but I’ll give myself grace as I’m only a human, and hurricanes are incredibly stressful and terrifying events.

Reflect:
When was the last time you found yourself in a struggle against something out of your control? How do you catch yourself and bring yourself back?

Want to Explore More on Control?
I have a worksheet on letting go of what’s out of your control and an episode from the Bottomless to Sober Podcast on control. You can find both linked here.


Upcoming Opportunities

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Podcast Listen to the Bottomless to Sober Podcast. Episodes 1-53 are live! Episode 52 features NYT Bestselling author, Jessica Lahey!

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I Had a choice: Either Keep Living in Fear or Face the Truth

Fear. What a beast.

Before I quit drinking, fear had me in its grip. It wasn’t just a passing worry—it was the invisible thread pulling every string in my life. I lived with the constant dread that my secret relationship with alcohol would be exposed, so I masked it by excelling in every other area. I was always the first to arrive at work and often the last to leave. No deadline was missed, no project detail overlooked. No matter how sick I felt from last night’s drinking, I powered through the hangovers, desperate to keep up the illusion that everything was fine. That fear—of being found out—was stronger than any withdrawal symptom.

I’ll never forget the day one of my students, Zavion, blurted out, “Ms. Dueñas, you smell like alcohol!” He said it with the carefree honesty only a middle schooler can muster, smiling as if he didn’t realize the weight of his words. I quickly turned away, my stomach knotting with anxiety, hoping he’d be distracted soon by the chaos of the classroom. While Zavion probably forgot the comment in minutes, I carried it with me, a stark reminder that I was always walking on the edge of exposure.It wasn’t until later that I realized the most dangerous part of my life wasn’t the fear of being caught—it was the fact that I was slowly killing myself in silence. I had a choice: either keep living in fear or face the truth and reclaim my life. For me, that meant going to the extreme and writing an Op-ed that went viral, spilling my truth to the world. But not everyone has to go that route.

If you’re keeping this deadly secret to yourself, know this: you don’t need to broadcast your struggles to the world, but opening up to someone can make all the difference. That one conversation could be the difference between isolation and support, between feeling lost and finding hope.You just need to tell someone—one person who can support you. That simple act can transform your journey from isolating in fear to finding real help.


Upcoming Opportunities

Book Study on the Book of Boundaries. Starts October 3 with The Luckiest Club. Register here.

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Podcast Listen to the Bottomless to Sober Podcast. Episodes 1-53 are live! Episode 52 features NYT Bestselling author, Jessica Lahey!

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Unraveling the Confidence Myth: My Journey from Self-Doubt to Self-Acceptance

“i want to apologize to all the women i have called beautiful

before i’ve called them intelligent or brave

i am sorry i made it sound as though

something as simple as what you’re born with

is all you have to be proud of

when you have broken mountains with your wit

from now on i will say things like

you are resilient, or you are extraordinary

not because i don’t think you’re beautiful

but because i need you to know

you are more than that”

― Rupi Kaur

Confidence is not something I was born with, nor was it something I was taught to have. Growing up, the message I received—both at home and from society—was clear: as a little girl with a complicated relationship with food, I was only acceptable if I was thin. From a young age, I found myself in a relentless battle with my body, constantly trying to mold it into something it wasn’t.

As a young woman, I took drastic measures, undergoing weight loss surgery in the hopes that it would finally give me the self-esteem I desperately craved. I believed that if I could fit into the narrow box defined by societal standards, confidence would naturally follow, and life would become easier.

But reality had other plans. Food had always been my comfort, and after the surgery, when food was no longer an option, alcohol quickly took its place as my go-to escape from life’s stressors. My body changed, but my mindset did not. I hadn’t done the internal work needed to believe I was worthy, and despite the weight loss, I remained trapped in a cycle of self-doubt, still feeling not good enough.

This mindset led me to settle into unhealthy romantic relationships. I would tell myself things like, “What if Keith is the best I could do?” even after catching him with another woman. Or, “Maybe Matthew will do better this time,” ignoring the fact that Matthew knew better all along but chose not to change.

The shame surrounding my growing addiction to alcohol kept me silent, further cementing the false belief that I was not enough. Even though I earned accolades like being named the 2019 Kentucky State Teacher of the Year and the 2019 Woman of the Year in the Louisville community, these honors meant nothing when I looked in the mirror.

It wasn’t until I found the courage to let myself be fully seen—owning the fact that I was a woman battling alcohol addiction—that my confidence and self-esteem began to blossom. Speaking openly about my addiction not only led me to the resources I needed to get and stay sober, but it also gave me the strength to walk away from anything that didn’t serve me—jobs, relationships, and any space where I didn’t belong.

I finally understood that I didn’t need to force myself to fit into any mold—whether it was a societal expectation or a toxic relationship. With the clarity that comes from an unclouded mind, the old narratives lost their power.

Embracing my recovery from addiction became the foundation for building my confidence and self-esteem.

Reflect: What do you need to foster your confidence and let it grow?


Upcoming Opportunities

Book Study on the Book of Boundaries. Starts October 3 with The Luckiest Club. Register here.

Life Coaching Closed for new clients until 2025, but click here to learn about my coaching services!

Six-Week Writing for Healing Program. Join the waitlist for the next round here here!

Free Writing for Healing WorkshopAccess here 

Podcast Listen to the Bottomless to Sober Podcast. Episodes 1-53 are live! Episode 52 features NYT Bestselling author, Jessica Lahey!

Subscribe below to get these posts in your inbox in the future.

From Good Girl to Strong Woman: The Power of Speaking Up

I recently came across a powerful message from Dr. Nicole LePera (you can follow her on Instagram) that I shared with a group of sober women. Here it is:

Reminder for recovering “good girls:”

  1. You can stand up for yourself and let someone know you won’t tolerate certain behaviors.
  2. When someone is rude, you don’t need to laugh it off or pretend it’s okay.
  3. “I don’t find that funny” lets people know that joke didn’t work for you.
  4. You’re not too sensitive because you express how you feel.
  5. If someone doesn’t accept your answer, it’s not a cue to keep explaining. It’s a sign they don’t respect boundaries.

While all these points are important, I want to focus on the first one about standing up for yourself.

At a doctor’s appointment this week, a medical assistant went to take my vitals. I noticed the blood pressure cuff she was using was too small for my arm and mentioned it. She dismissed my concern, saying it was fine. When the reading came back high, I knew something was wrong since my blood pressure has been normal since quitting drinking. I spoke up, insisting by saying, “I need my blood pressure taken with a cuff that fits my arm. That is not my blood pressure. I check it myself in the mornings at home.” After some reluctance, she found a larger cuff and retook my blood pressure, which then showed a normal reading.

This experience reminded me that medical professionals, despite their expertise, are human and can make mistakes, making it crucial to be an active participant in our own care, rather than just a passive recipient.

Before sobriety, I often let others dictate what happened next in our interactions, even if it wasn’t what I wanted. My secret addiction to alcohol made me feel unworthy of defending myself. Convinced that I didn’t deserve protection, whether it was with family, friends, romantic partners, or even in medical settings, I let others’ voices override my own.

Recovery has helped clear the fog that once clouded my mind, allowing me to reconnect with my body and find my voice. Sobriety empowers us to actively participate in our interactions, whether with loved ones, colleagues, or professionals. It helps us listen to and trust ourselves again.

Remember, your voice matters, and you have the right to stand up for yourself.

Reflect: How has standing up for yourself evolved? Is this a strength of yours or is this something you are still working on?


Upcoming Opportunities

Life Coaching Let’s work on the stories you tell yourself, together. Schedule your free consultation here!

Six-Week Writing for Healing Program. Join the waitlist for the next round here here!

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Podcast Episode 53. To Go or Not To Go: Assessing the Risks of Going Out When Alcohol is Involved

Link to Spotify

In this episode:

Feeling like you might be the odd one out at social gatherings because you’ve chosen sobriety? You’re not alone. In this episode, I share tips to help you decide if navigating social events where alcohol is often front and center is something you are ready for.

Resources:

⁠Bottomless to Sober – Coaching, Classes, and Workshops⁠

Transcript:

00:03 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Hey everyone. Jessica here and it is so nice to be back. I have taken huge intentional breaks over the course of this summer that I’m not apologizing for. I needed to take time to myself and so I took it, but I’m happy to be back. I felt moved to create a podcast episode to talk about the decision to go out or not to go out as a sober person when we know that alcohol is going to be at whatever venue we’re going to. I recently had an opportunity to go out to dinner with my coworkers and I had so much fun. It was such a great opportunity to just connect with my colleagues outside of the university setting.

00:43
But what I realized is that there are a lot of things that have to be in place before I can go out with people and be comfortable with them drinking to their heart’s content. While I have water or whatever else I choose to drink that has no alcohol in it, right, and so I wanted to bring that here. In case this is something that you struggle with or are struggling with, or if you know someone who’s struggling with, then send them this episode to listen to, because that’s the thing, right. Like how often have any of us said to ourselves or thought I don’t want to be left out because I don’t drink. Or, you know, if I skip the happy hour, or if I skip a boozy meal, or if I skip, you know, the holiday party, right, if I skip insert event here, I will stop getting invited altogether. And again, if you have thought these things, you are absolutely not alone. And here’s the thing a person who is strong in their recovery can go anywhere. I’m gonna say that again. A person who is strong in their recovery can go anywhere. I’m going to say that again. A person who is strong in their recovery can go anywhere. When I am feeling very well, taken care of, when I feel strong in general, and I know that I don’t want to get out of my feelings, get out of my head, get out of the skin that I’m in, I know that I’m good and I can go, do whatever and partake in any activity that I want to, whether or not there’s alcohol there. But if I am feeling weak, if I am feeling insecure, if I am doubting my decision, if I am feeling like I want what they want, then those are all a lot of good reasons to potentially say no for now and stay home, then those are all a lot of good reasons to potentially say no for now and stay home. So, essentially, this is how I knew that I would be fine.

02:28
So the first thing that I want to point out right is that whoever you are spending time with, there should be someone in that group that knows that you are not drinking. I’m not going to sit here and tell you, to tell your whole entire life story to this one trusted soul that knows that you’re not drinking. I’m not saying that. But what I am saying is that someone should be made aware in that group of your intention to not drink. Why One? That’s going to establish an opportunity for accountability, right? If you know that someone else knows what you’re trying to do, that automatically helps you stay focused and stay on track with your goal. But secondly, it also gives you the opportunity to have some built-in support at whatever this event is.

03:12
Because the thing is, people often want to help us, but if we don’t explicitly open our mouths and ask for that help, if we don’t say, hey, if you notice me going for that wine, can you like just give me a look? Right, just a look can be enough, but if we don’t communicate that need for support, people won’t know how to help us. They won’t even know that we need the help or the support. So it really becomes our responsibility to make sure that there’s at least one human being in that space who we can trust to know that we are not going to drink. Fun fact, my dog is drinking, like got super thirsty right now and was drinking a lot of water. So maybe you heard him lapping up the water, maybe you didn’t, but I’m not editing it. So moving forward, here’s the thing If you find that you don’t feel safe telling at least one person of your intention to not drink and you are still insisting on going to this event, let me tell you something there’s going to be a huge probability of you drinking.

04:15
Why? Because there’s not going to be any human soul there physically for you to like, look to or talk to or confide in right, you’re going at it alone. For you to like, look to or talk to or confide in right, you’re going at it alone. And then B, if people don’t know that you are not drinking, they’re going to be offering you alcohol. So imagine how many more times you’re going to have to say no or decline right. That’s a lot of mental energy for yourself to be constantly having to decline something, as opposed to going in with the established fact that, no, you are not consuming this.

04:45
For example, with my colleagues, my coworkers they have known a since they won that I don’t drink Like I walked into that job interview and I was like I want to work here because I I’m in recovery and I want college students to know an adult in recovery. So that has been well established on my part and obviously my storytelling style and my level of openness is very unique. But again, you know what’s never going to happen. There will never be. Well, I can’t say never, but I highly doubt that a coworker of mine is ever going to offer me a drink because they know not just that I don’t drink, but they know I have a history of addiction. You are never going to offer a heroin user who’s in recovery you know heroin right going to offer a heroin user who’s in recovery you know heroin right. Same way, people who know someone has struggled for real with alcohol aren’t about to give them alcohol. So again, if you find that you cannot tell anybody that you are not drinking tonight at this event, then you know what. You are better off protecting yourself and staying home. You’re probably not ready to say yes, and that’s okay.

05:44
The other thing to consider is what is your attitude toward the people who are still drinking? Right, Because this can go about three different ways. One you might be looking at people who are drinking and you are like, oh my gosh, I wish I could still drink. I’m so jealous, I hate it here. I hate this stupid sobriety thing. It’s so unfair that I have to stop drinking. Why can’t I just drink like them? Right?

06:13
If that’s the stream of consciousness that comes up for you when you see other people drink, right, then you’re better off staying home again, because it’s just going to fill you with yearning for something that you don’t have and can’t really have right now, or at all, or it’s going to fill you with resentment. And why do you want to put yourself in that position again? I mean recovery. I’ll be the first one to tell you that being sober is not the easiest thing, right, and sobriety doesn’t guarantee you, like this, easy life. However, what I will say is that if you struggle to recognize that your relationship with alcohol is different than other people’s and so you’re still wanting what they have. Then again, just stay safe and stay home. Right, wait until your relationship with your sobriety is stronger, so that you’re not necessarily wanting what other people have.

07:02
The second way that this can go in terms of attitudes towards alcohol or people who still drink is that maybe you are loving sobriety, maybe you are on this pink cloud and you have seen the light and you have read what’s that book? Quit Like a Woman and you are just all about how, like, big alcohol is just producing this mass amounts of poison that are killing people and everyone should just be sober, right, maybe you’ve got that level of enthusiasm, which is great, except that if your friend is about to down a flight of shots of tequila, you have no business in that moment saying anything or trying to change their behavior. Right, like good for you that you are happy about your recovery and that you are proud of your sobriety journey. But the point is it’s your journey, right, and you walk it on your own right. You. You can’t do it alone, but it is your path and it is your responsibility.

07:52
So what you need to recognize is is that you know, especially a social event is not the place to try to convert people who are drinkers into sobriety right. And so if you are sitting in these spaces looking at people who are still drinking with judgment or thinking almost that like you’re now so much more elevated because you’re sober, then you should save your energy and save their time and not go have dinner or go out with them, because, for what? Why are you gonna sit there filling your body full of that energy of just judgment? You might as well stay home. The third way that that can go is that you’re you’re not judgy and you kind of you don’t care what they’re doing with themselves, because you recognize that they are in their own bodies, they’re walking their own paths, they’re living their own journeys, and so you get to just really enjoy their company. Again, I had a blast with my coworkers because I focused on enjoying their company. I had a blast with my coworkers because I focused on enjoying their company. I focused on enjoying their humor. They’re silly, they’re funny, they’re charismatic, and I did all of that without judgment. But if I was sitting there judging them for whatever they were consuming, there is no way that it would have been an enjoyable social event.

09:03
The other thing to consider if you’re going to go to a social event is will you have an exit strategy? If you can’t get out by yourself, then don’t go, because what’s really important is for you to be able to leave when you are ready to and when you want to. Tired, then you need to protect yourself and not go, because when you stress your body, when you exhaust your body, that is absolutely going to increase the risk of wanting to drink. So it’s so important that you honor your limits and just go home when you need to, but if you can’t, then don’t go. And then, really, the last thing that I just wanted to talk about here is finding a place of acceptance. If you can accept that you are on a sobriety path which will absolutely look different from the path of the people that you are with. If you can’t accept that, then that is not the space for you to be in.

10:04
Right, because it’s important for you to acknowledge, like number one, you’re going to have to probably drink water or see if they maybe have a mocktail or alcohol free option on the menu, which a lot of places still don’t have, right? So that means that if you want to have like a drink that’s not a soft drink, you’re going to have to sit there and ask the server, right, can I have an alcoholfree version of insert, whatever mocktail that there is? And, yes, there will be probably some awkwardness, right, that comes up for advocating for your special needs, your specific needs. But you have to remember that any awkwardness that comes up is definitely well worth waking up the next day without having to worry like what the hell you did the night before, right. But if those things are too much for you, if you think that everyone is going to swivel their head and stare at you the second that you say alcohol free, you know whatever, then don’t go.

10:59
But the reality is people don’t really care if you’re not drinking. That that really is it, unless they have a problem themselves with alcohol and they look at you changing your relationship with alcohol as a threat to their relationship with alcohol. They really don’t care. And so, with that being said, you know, just remember, you weren’t born to be like everyone else, right? If you were meant to conform in the first place, you would have been born like, exactly like everyone else. But we were born to be individuals. We were born to just be who we’re meant to be.

11:36
When you start to feel like, oh my gosh, I’m so different, I’m so unique from my coworkers, you know, and you start to feel sort of like this sense of absolute isolation. If you haven’t joined any sobriety support communities, I highly recommend that you do. Why? Because when you go in there and you open your mouth and share, you’re going to find that shocker. You’re not the only one who feels this way and it helps you feel a lot less isolated. So I would highly highly recommend it. I host meetings at the luckiest club, the luckiest clubcom, but there’s tons of other communities and tons of other options.

12:10
So, again, everyone is going to find that their readiness level for certain. You know, situations, experiences comes at different times, if it ever even comes right. Maybe you just don’t want to partake in these kinds of events, and that’s okay. But if you realize that you would like to be able to go out to meals with friends or different social groups and be okay with other people drinking, don’t force it. Wait until you’re ready. Wait until you feel strong enough, right Again, look to some of the things that I mentioned in this episode and also consider what else do you need for yourself? What other metrics for yourself might help you decide if you can handle these situations or not. They’re not for everybody and there’s no need to rush into them. And again, you are different because you’re an individual and you are unique, and so it’s okay if you don’t blend in with everyone at work. It’s okay if you don’t blend in with your friend group exactly as you used to. You’re not meant to be like everyone else. That’s that.


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To Go or Not to Go: Assessing the Risks of Dining Out with Alcohol as a Sober Person

It’s a common worry: “I don’t want to be left out because I don’t drink,” or “If I skip happy hour or a boozy meal, will I stop getting invited altogether?” Many people face these thoughts when they’re changing their relationship with alcohol but still want to socialize with friends who drink.

A person who is strong in their recovery can go anywhere and be fine, but the question remains: how do you know if you’re ready to accept an invite like this?

This week, I had the opportunity to go to a dinner filled with belly laughs with my colleagues who drink, and this was how I knew I would be fine.

Whoever you are breaking bread with should know you’re not drinking. When you’re navigating social events while maintaining sobriety, it’s crucial to let someone in the group know that you’re not drinking. They don’t need to know your full story or personal traumas, but having at least one trusted soul in that group aware of your choice provides a sense of accountability and support. For example, my colleagues knew from the moment I walked into my job interview that I wanted to model recovery for college students. They know alcohol is not an option for me, period. While my situation and how open I am about my story is unique, the principle remains: you can’t do this alone, and someone should be aware of your decision not to drink. If you don’t feel safe communicating a plan to not drink to at least one person in the group, maybe you’re not ready to say yes.

Examine your attitude about people who do still drink. When you see others drinking, do you feel a longing for what they are having? Or is there some rage that rises up in you where you want to cry and scream at the world, shaking your fist as you bellow, “It’s not fair that I can’t drink?”

If seeing others drink makes you yearn for what they’re having or fills you with resentment, it might be best to decline the invitation until you’re more secure in your sobriety. Recovery isn’t always sunshine and rainbows, but if you struggle to recognize that your relationship with alcohol is not the same as your peers, and you feel a strong desire to drink, protect yourself and stay home until you feel stronger.

On the other hand, have you seen the light now that you’re sober and wish sobriety on everyone? Is it nearly impossible to wrap your mind around the fact that people you know still ingest this poison into their bodies? If your sobriety has made you want to preach its benefits to that friend as they get ready to consume a flight of shots, and you find it hard to understand why others still drink, it’s also wise to stay home. Recovery is your journey; what others do with their bodies is their business. Social events are not the place to silently judge or try to convert others. Remember, at some point, you were in their shoes. Gifting myself moments of joy with my colleagues was only possible because I focused on enjoying their company and humor without judgment.

Have an exit strategy. Just as my teammates knew I wouldn’t be drinking, they also knew I wouldn’t be out late. Giving yourself permission to leave whenever you’re ready alleviates the pressure of ignoring your body’s signals when it’s tired. Stressing your body increases the risk of wanting to drink, so it’s important to honor your limits and exit when you need to.

Accept that you’re on this path, which will look different from others’ journeys. Acknowledge that you’ll need to order a water, choose from the mocktail section of the menu, or ask for an alcohol-free version of a cocktail. Any awkwardness that may come from advocating for your unique needs is well worth waking up the next day without worrying about what you did the night before. I wasn’t born to be just like everyone else, so when I start to worry about standing out, I remind myself that I wasn’t meant to conform in the first place—neither were you. When you join sobriety support group communities, including spaces like The Luckiest Club, where I host meetings, you get to see that you aren’t alone.

Ultimately, everyone finds their readiness for certain experiences at different times, if ever. Maybe you have zero desire to partake in a social event where alcohol is served, or maybe you don’t feel ready yet. Wherever you are, it’s fine. You grow at the pace that’s meant for you, not on someone else’s timeline.


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Guest Submission: A Truth I Learned About Myself

This guest submission comes from one of my Writing to Heal students, where participants find the courage to heal by facing their stories, often for the first time. I am deeply grateful to Jorgie for his vulnerability and so proud of the growth in his writing from Week 1 to Week 6 of our program.

Content Warning: Physical Violence and Language.

A truth I learned about myself while working with my therapist, is that I was addicted to “codependency”, and nobody could tell me shit otherwise. I was heavily relying on my relationship with my ex-partner and people throughout my life, so my therapist explained to me, “People (Bodies), Places (Alcohol), and Things (Pills) were “wants” of mine, not “needs.” My assumption was that as long as I was in school and working that, I was doing ok, and that my societal expectations were being met. My needing assistance is ok if I need help and support from my family and friends, not be an “Emotional Vampire” and drain the life forces from the people that I love and care about. Afterward, I started to take responsibility for the actions that I had always avoided. Through sobriety, I was more “Present,” and my awareness heightened, and I was able to think more clearly and not depend on Alcohol and Pills for escapism and avoidance.

Codependency started blooming from childhood because even though I had a roof over my head, sometimes, with the chaos at home, the roof would constantly shatter over my head, shake the walls, and I always hid from loudness. My parents fought constantly; my dad would hit my mom, pinch her, and pull her hair, and in retaliation, my mom would explode with rage and break dishes in the house. The screaming and the sounds of flesh hitting flesh caused huge knots in my stomach, that is, until this day, whenever I hear loudness, my sensors go up.  I hid, avoided, and exploded. My parents loved me, unfortunately they did not have the resources and coping skills for communication, embrace and peace due to Intergenerational trauma passed down from my grandparents and my great grandparents.

Every time there was chaos in the house, I always ran into my bedroom, jumped on the bed, forced my face down on the pillow, and sobbed. Consciously I went in there to hide because it was the only door in the house with a lock on it and a big bed to keep me afloat and protect me like a fortress from violence. The knots in my gut that were corralling around like vines with thorns on it, made my stomach so heavy, it was like swallowing a bowling ball, the heaviness would not go away, until the fights subsided. It was like my throat was dry as the desert, could not swallow, forcefully exhaling my breaths out of my cracked quaky lips which only stayed lubricated from my tears rolling down my cheeks. I was a “Professional Hider” with my heavy breathing and uncontrollable sobbing, while the background noise continued with my parents screaming, yelling, fighting, dishes breaking, and empty threats.

As I got older, I became an “Emotional Vampire”. The chaos that ensued at home did not fill me with love, only dread. Everyone within my proximity, I would suck their energy like a mosquito, and not getting enough blood. If they did not answer the phone, I would give them hell. If they did not answer my text messages I would ignore them for days, even weeks. Being alone and in my thoughts, I absolutely could not do it, so I always bombarded my friends with phone calls to hang out, get high, drunk, and numb out. If my friends did not meet my expectations to hang out or even talk, they would meet the “Brown Eyed Bitch”. Even though they loved me, they just found me relentless and exhausting and would ignore me. I will show them!

The Brown Eyed Bitch (BEB) was the life of the party; everyone always needed Jorgie at the party to hype it up, twerk upside down, vomit and be a hot damn mess. Like two sides of a coin, there was the “Jorgie” side, and the “BEB” side. If I called a friend and they did not answer, beware if I leave a voicemail, “Oh so you did not answer your phone? Ok! I see how it is, Celebrity! Let me ask you, are you on an EGOT? Do you have an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar or Tony? I don’t think so so why didn’t you pick up the fucking phone?!” If the BEB texted, and there was no response, then it becomes…

“Hello?”

“Are you there?”

“So now you’re ignoring me?

“Ok watch!”

“Wait until I see you”

“Bitch”

“Love you!”

If my friends could not fill my love tank, then “bodies” would. So I started to randomly hook up with strangers online, and on blind first dates, that just led to Blackout Sex. The embrace, hugs, and kisses that I did not get from home, I would look for complete strangers who would fill me up, never see them again, and move on to the next one. It was not until I went on a blind date that finally, a spark was formed when I met my future partner, when we went to the movies to see Inception. We really enjoyed each other’s company, so we went on many more dates, and ended up together for the next 12 years. Unfortunately, towards the end of the relationship, we were both drinking and using, and what I saw in my parents as a child was now something I did with my partner. The yelling, slapping, kicking, disagreements, it was like a cycle of violence all over again into my adulthood.

In the beginning, we were goo goo gaga for each other, love at first sight, the perfect couple. Finally, I felt at peace in my life, and I had a life I could share with someone,spend the rest of my life with, and create a future together. Unfortunately, we found a hobby together, which was drinking. We drank everyday, then one day my partner gave me a pain pill, and my life drastically changed from there. I was hooked, it was like no other feeling I ever felt, and I needed more. Those feelings intensified, so when my partner was not looking I would go into their bag and steal their pills. Finally completing my trifecta of: body, alcohol and pills, I was set, and my life was like that for the whole relationship with my partner at the time. Avoided my family, no Communication with my friends, and Exploded with fury at my partner.

To understand the demise of our relationship is for me to explain how it comes crumbling down piece by piece, until it was glass shattered all over us, that we were cut with each blade, and we had scars all over of our body, and yet we were both in denial that “everything is OK”.  In the Beginning of our relationship, I felt like I was floating on air, I was happy all the time like a kid at the Amusement park, the joy, endless conversations that made me feel like finally I was not alone. Unfortunately, alcohol came into the picture, and we were always arguing, sometimes I could not even stand their ass, and wanted them out of my sight. Like a gnat that was in my face, and I wanted to smack the shit out of it and get it the hell away from me! Our conversations would be filled with such love and care. The beginning of our wonderful partnership was like….

Hi babe, how was your day?”

“I miss you”

“I love you”

“Let’s go have dinner, where would you like to go?”

Drastically, over time, the relationship was crumbling; we were drinking daily, and the BEB was more present than Jorgie.

“Hey did you fold the laundry?”

“Did you take the dogs out?”

“Did you clean up the dog shit?”

“Yeah let’s go eat and get it over with”.

On June 5, 2022, my ex of 12 years kicked me out of our shared Townhouse. Months later, I would send them a text saying, “Thank you for doing that; you kicking me out was doing me the biggest favor, and I am sober now”.” I know deep deep deep down in my heart that if I stayed in that relationship I would not be sober. My therapist asked me “What would happen if you stayed in that relationship?” I said, “I would be dead”. Now I am 2 years sober, and it is one of my greatest accomplishments that I have ever done for myself, by myself.

On June 6, 2022, I moved back in with my family; they opened their arms and welcomed me back home to heal, detox, and recover. Fortunately, this time back home, I informed my family members that I had boundaries; I was still in recovery and currently medicated. My mom spoke to my dad and told him that I needed my space and that any disagreements between them should be resolved on their own and not get me involved like a referee when I was just a child. What I did a lot as a child, though, turned me into a Voracious Reader as an Adult, and it was not until I found “QuitLit,” which is interpreted as (Literature of Quitting Drinking), that I began to dive into the readings, journaling, and self-reflections. I felt less alone and connected with other people online and on social media. Afterwards, I decided to seek out a therapist, and it has been vital to my growth and mental health. Reconnecting with my Family (Repairing the damages done to each other many years ago, through support and communication), reading, community, and therapy are the glorious components that have kept me sober. Taking it one day at a time, it is not easy, but I keep going.

About the author, Jorgie: I’m a kindergarten teacher who’s been an educator for 16 years. I am two years sober, and proud of it. I like to do writing on the side, and have two dogs and one cat. 

Jorgie has recently created a Substack to continue to share his work, and you can follow him on Instagram here. His IG stories are so fun to follow!

Podcast Episode 52. Raising Healthy Kids: Insights from Jessica Lahey on Substance Use Prevention

Link to Spotify

In this episode:

Preventing substance use in children starts earlier than you might think—right from kindergarten. In this eye-opening episode, I welcome Jessica Lahey, an educator, New York Times bestselling author, and speaker, who shares insights from her book The Addiction Inoculation: Raising Healthy Kids in a Culture of Dependence. Jessica highlights the developmental differences in how young people respond to substances and provides parents, educators, and community members with the tools they need to have effective and informed conversations about substance use and safety. Discover how cumulative, consistent efforts are far more impactful than one-time discussions in fostering healthy habits and mindsets in children and how to find the courage to name the things that are happening as opposed to keeping things hidden.

Resources:

Jessica Lahey’s Site + Books

Follow Jessica Lahey on Instagram

World Health Organization’s Statistics on Alcohol Use

Bottomless to Sober – Coaching, Classes, and Workshops

Jessica Lahey’s Book Recommendations:

High: Everything You Want to Know About Drugs, Alcohol, and Addiction by David Sheff and Nic Sheff

Brainstorm: The Power and Purpose of the Teenage Brain by Daniel Siegel

The Deepest Well: Healing the Long-Term Effects of Childhood Adversity by Nadine Burke Harris

Under Pressure: Confronting the Epidemic of Stress and Anxiety in Girls by Lisa Damour

Transcript:

00:19 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Hey, everyone, it is so good to be back, especially after having taken a brief time away, and today we are discussing an incredibly timely and important topic, especially because summer is here and so you’ve got everybody home right, and that topic is preventing substance use in our kids, especially, again, like I said, everyone is home for the summer, but really focusing in on this topic with our families who have parents who are navigating recovery. So for today’s episode, I am super honored to have very special guest, Jessica Lahey. So, yes, it’s a double Jessica episode and Jessica is an educator and author and speaker whose work has really transformed folks’ understanding of addiction and resilience in young people, right.

01:05
So Jessica is the author of two books. The first one is a New York Times bestseller, the Gift of Failure how the Best Parents Learn to Let Go so their Children Can Succeed. And then the text that we’re focusing on more today is the Addiction Inoculation Raising Healthy Kids in the Culture of Dependence. So both are excellent breeds for parents, educators, the aunties who are seeking to understand and prevent substance abuse among children and teens, and so for today’s episode, we’re going to discuss what the risk factors are for substance abuse and also how parents, educators and other family members and community members, especially those who are in recovery, can help equip this generation of kiddos to handle these challenges. So Jessica will share insights from her book and, again, her extensive experience as both a researcher and a teacher, and also a mother. So listen along. I hope you enjoy the episode and take good care. Jessica, hi, welcome.

02:03 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Thank you so so much for having me. This is just. This conversation is so much fun to have and I’m so grateful for those of us who are for the people who are sort of opening this up and making it less scary for other people.

02:15 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yes, cause talking to kids can be really scary. Teenagers and young adults are are an intimidation. I know that from having taught middle schoolers for many years and now working with college students. They are an intimidation. I know that from having taught middle schoolers for many years and now working with college students. They are an intimidating bunch, and so I’m so glad that you are here just to share your expertise. So my first question is if you could share, just for anyone listening, a little bit about the work that you do and the core message of the addiction inoculation, especially as it might relate to, say, high school or college age students. I know in your book you do provide frameworks, which I think is awesome for anyone listening. If you check out the text, there are even frameworks for how to talk to the littles about this. But yeah, what would you say is sort of like the core message behind the high schoolers and the college age students?

03:01 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
So in order to do that, I have to back up one second and just say so. I was a teacher for 20 years, and when I was teaching in middle school is when my first book, the Gift of Failure, came out, and it was also right. When I sold that book was the same moment that I realized that this sneaking suspicion that I had a major problem with alcohol for a while really got to the point where it couldn’t be ignored anymore and led to a whole I talk about it in the book sort of how I ended up there. But so the minute that I got sober and had this realization of, oh my gosh, like I was raised by an alcoholic and one of my parents was raised by an alcoholic, and so on and so on and so on. So is this just like? Are we doomed or is there what’s up? I have these two children, I have these two children in front of me and I don’t want them to have to go through what I went through. So how do I even begin to talk to them about what I’m doing now in terms of getting sober? But then, what the heck like? What’s myth? What’s reality, what’s evidence-based? How do we go, we as parents and we as educators go and mentors and people like that go about doing sort of best practices for substance use prevention in kids, and I just couldn’t find that book. So I mean, I have the coolest job in the world and I get to get curious about something and then I get to write it.

04:23
So you’re absolutely right, though, that the best substance use prevention programs that we know of start really early, like kindergarten, pre-k, kindergarten is where the scripts in the book really start, because there is nothing more maddening than you know a school who feels like they’re doing a really good job, for example, and they don’t even start talking about this until high school, for example, and that’s just too late. Middle school is too late. I mean, anytime is the right time to get started, but with really really little kids, you know we’re talking about things like bodily autonomy and about things that we put inside our bodies and things that we don’t put inside of our bodies, and then it goes developmentally up with kids and by the time we get them to high school, especially high school, them to high school, especially high school, these conversations should be a regular part of talking about your safety and how your brain is developing in particular, and that’s why I spent so much time on brain development, because I, you know, the substance use in kids is a completely different game than substance use in adults. The you know the brain art, the human brain is not done developing until the early to mid twenties and the damage that we do to our brains when we use any addictive substances while that brain is done developing does short and long-term damage. That is just not a thing as much when we get older. And helping adolescents understand that and giving them sort of all of the evidence they need in order to make the best possible decisions, and then giving them some refusal skills in order to make the best possible decisions for themselves, that’s sort of at the heart of what we do with the middle school, high school and even into college.

06:03
Because, you know, I almost didn’t even put a college chapter in this book because I, you know, I grew up, I’m 50, how old am I? 54. So to me, college was animal house, right. Everybody drinks, everybody drinks to excess. It’s just a big alcohol fueled, you know, whatever I was like. Well, why bother? Why put a college chapter in the book?

06:25
But it turns out, the minute I started digging into the research.

06:28
Far, far fewer kids in college drink than we think and the vast, vast majority of college students drink. The vast sorry, the vast vast minority of college students drink the vast majority of alcohol on college campuses. And the nice thing is, college students report that they still get a fair amount of their information on sort of safety and health from their parents, so they’re still listening, even when they’re in college. So sorry, very long answer to say. You know, we are still able to influence our kids and talk to them about healthy decisions. The problem is is for so long we’ve done it wrong. We’ve tried to scare them straight, and that doesn’t work. We’ve tried to, you know, give them the worst possible examples of everything that could happen, and that doesn’t work and just say no, doesn’t work. What works is giving kids really good information about their brains, about their bodies, about how alcohol functions differently in an adolescent brain and body than it does in an adult brain or body or whatever the drug is, and then trusting them to make some good decisions.

07:29 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, and you know, I totally agree with the college student part in terms of their parental influence. Now that this has been my first year and a half working on a college campus and working very close with college students, and they absolutely still go to their parents for everything and even like my strategies to manage my student staff that I would do with my middle school students have really worked with high school I mean college students, right. So I think that you’re absolutely spot on to include the conversation about college students for the parents, because I think that, yeah, their influence is still really, really big. So, you know, as I was listening to you speak, I was thinking about the parents, and I’ve heard many parents in my years of teaching say well, I’m the type of parent who wants to make sure that my kid knows how to drink, so I’m going to get them the alcohol. Their friends can come stay over, they can drink in the basement and I know that they’re all safe. What are your thoughts on that, based off what you mentioned about the brain?

08:26 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Okay.

08:27
So, first and foremost, there are two main myths I hear. Which is? The first one is I want to teach my kids model for my kids what moderate drinking looks like, and modeling for your kids what moderate drinking looks like, that’s all great and wonderful, but hoping that giving them alcohol in order to teach them about moderation or to make it no big deal so they don’t freak out later these are all myths, and the other one is the whole. They’re going to do it anyway. So therefore, you know they can do it at my house and I’ll keep them safe by taking away all the keys, that kind of thing. Both of these actually raise your children’s lifelong risk of developing substance use disorder when they get older.

09:06
There are a couple of things to think about. Number one parents who have a consistent, clear message of no, not until your brain is done developing. Some people choose to go with no, not until it’s legal, except that for me is a for a lot of adolescents anyway is a because I said so kind of argument which doesn’t tend to go over too well. But if they understand how their brain is developing and the particular harms that drugs and alcohol can do in their brains, when you say no, not until your brain is done developing. That’s just not what we do in this family. You’re you know those kids have much lower rates of substance use disorder in their lifetime than kids who have parents with a permissive stance on drugs and alcohol before it’s legal for them or before their brain is done developing. The other thing is that, like attempting to teach moderation to a kid by letting them sip. The problem is is if they’re going to have a problem with drug and alcohol, like, for example, myself, I can’t learn moderation. It’s just not something that I’m going to be able to learn.

10:09
Number three the younger a kid is when they first try drugs or alcohol, the higher their lifelong risk of developing substance use disorder. So if you have an eighth grader and they have their first beer or their first whatever, they have almost a 50% chance over the span of their lifetime of developing substance use disorder. If they wait two more years, we can cut that in half to about 21%. And if we can get them to go another two years till they’re 18, then we can cut that in half again down to about 11%. So again, delay, delay, delay has to be the message here, and that happens best couched in the hole. Let me explain to you what’s happening in your brain. Let me explain to you why alcohol works differently in your body than it does in the body of an adult, that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I don’t have a lot of patience, for well, I have lots of patience, but I don’t have a lot of.

11:05
I don’t truck with those sort of myths about teaching kids somehow to be moderate. And the last one that I hear a lot is yes, but what about those European families, those European kids, where the kids are given sips and it’s not a big deal to them and they grow up being moderate drinkers? Well, the problem there is if you go to the World Health Organization and you look at their site on alcohol consumption and other statistics I’ll go into in a second in Europe, europe as a whole, has the highest rates of illness attributable to alcohol in the entire world. They have the highest rates of death attributable to alcohol in the entire world. They have the highest rates of death attributable to alcohol in the entire world.

11:46
And, depending on the country, you know, there’s a lot of variability across Europe and this is where people tend to scream at me but what about? What about Greece? What about France? What about Italy? You know they tend to yell at me, which is fine because I can break it down. I can break down Europe by every single country, because I’ve had to go into great detail in order to counter sort of those yeah, yeah, yeah, but in this country it’s totally cool and people are moderate drinkers. But as a whole, the European Union is not really the end all be all example that maybe we should be holding up.

12:20 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, that’s, that’s a really powerful example too, because, you’re right, I’ve always heard the whole European example for both alcohol and then just other habits, and it’s just like okay, like let’s, let’s look at the facts here. So I appreciate and I’ll I’ll definitely take a peek at the world health organizations on site, cause I’d be so curious, and I know you mentioned this also in your texts as well.

12:40 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
I also, by the way, if, if you want to get into the intricacies of it, if you go to JessicaLaheycom there’s a menu option for videos and under that is the addiction, inoculation or the gift of failure, and there’s almost 200 videos and they’re indexed by topic and I go into super deep detail about the European stuff and actually it’s really fascinating. And actually it’s really fascinating Even the countries that buck that tradition, that go against that sort of culture of having a lot of death and disease attributable to alcohol. It’s because those countries have a lower tolerance culturally for out-of-control drunkenness in public. So it just underlines the fact that we can create cultures around drinking and that can affect public health on a larger scale.

13:31 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Absolutely. So I’m adding that definitely to my notes for resources. And so, Jessica, now that it’s summertime, or you know, I know in the Northeast they’re probably still in school, like in New York City, I think. Like probably still in school until July, as all these kids start to come home for the summer and they’re just there, obviously there’s increased risk for all sorts of trouble that they’re going to get into. So, with regard to substance use, and again this idea of delaying, delaying, delaying, what strategies do you suggest for parents in the, with the summer being here and their kids just being probably unsupervised a whole lot more than they’re used to? It’s?

14:10 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
a fantastic point. It turns out that transitions are. When you look at risk factors for kids with drinking, there’s all sorts of. There’s a whole bunch of different risk factors we could talk about, but one of them is transitional periods. Whether that’s you know, parents are getting divorced and we’re going through a transitional period and it’s uncomfortable and it’s emotionally challenging. Or the transition summer is a transition or the transition from middle school to high school, or the transition moving to a new place. Transitions in general can be risky times for kids just because they’re, they upset the apple cart kind of thing.

14:44
So and here’s where I run into big problems, because I wrote my first book was called the Gift of Failure how the best parents learn to let go so their children can succeed and learn from their mistakes. And, on the other hand, we know for a fact that kids tend to. If they’re going to pick up drinking or drugs, it’s going to be more often during the summer, because kids tend to congregate with other kids and have more time unsupervised in the summer. However, the answer is not well, I’ll never, ever let my kid be unsupervised and hang out with other teenagers. I mean, that’s just ridiculous. My husband is a physician. And his joke in response to that is you know we could. We could prevent a lot of skin cancer if we just never, ever let our children go outside. Right, but that can’t be. That’s not a realistic response.

15:32
So the idea is really pick up the conversations before summer about you know the best practices, stuff that’s in the gift of failure and or, sorry, in the addiction, inoculation, and it would take up a ton of time to sort of go through all of that.

15:46
But pick those conversation up a little bit more before summer starts and have your kids have ways to check in with you and I’m not implying that you survey, surveil them more, whether on life 360 or you know all of those apps that you can like, trail your kids, but come up with a good, healthy medium where your kids feel like they have some independence and they have some of your trust and at the same time, you’re having more frequent conversations about what’s going on with your kid, what’s going on with their friends. Knowing the parents of your kids’ friends, that’s a major protective factor when it comes to substance use. So there’s a whole bunch of tips in the book, but I just amplify all of them right before summer starts. It’s just a time when kids yeah, they are at more risk, but if you’re having and it’s not something that you can prevent by having like one conversation in June about here’s what you need to do over this summer, it’s part of a big cumulative effort.

16:44 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, I mean I feel like a lot of what I’m hearing is that it really has to become almost a practice on the part of the parent, like practice of being transparent with your kiddos and I know for some families that can be really hard Like if you’ve been kind of raised to, I’ve got to be strong. We don’t talk about those things here and now.

17:01 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Suddenly it’s like, well, the only real way to delay the start of any substance use is to really have these tough conversations that can get really uncomfortable for a parent. It’s so uncomfortable. I mean, the first time I had to talk about the fact that I am an alcoholic with my kids was I wanted to throw up, I was. It was so scary. But on the other hand, because they have a grimp, actually they they have multiple relatives who are have issues with substance use disorder.

17:30
We’ve had multiple conversations like one year Christmas went down the toilet because there was a relapse with one of their relatives and we pretty much had to not do Christmas the way we were planning on doing Christmas. So we didn’t make something up to explain away why Christmas blew up. That year we said your relative who has issues with alcohol, you know, just decided to start drinking again and it’s my job as your, as your mom or as your parent to keep you safe from that, because I grew up with a lot of that and it’s very upsetting and so we’re just going to do something slightly different. So you know, being transparent and also keep in mind I was raised in a home where we were never, ever allowed to talk about it Like my sister and I would tag team like okay, whose turn is it to try to bring it up with the other parent.

18:19
We think our parent might have a problem, and then the other parent would gaslight us and say no, no, no, no, no, it’s just a headache, or they’re just taking a nap or whatever. So I think, in reaction to that, I’ve become one of those people that names things as what they are and euphemisms drive me crazy. And gaslighting kids is so incredibly dangerous and so incredibly emotionally challenging for kids that you’re better off having some honesty with them about what’s going on. And you know, from a kid’s perspective, it’s really important if they know that, for example, heart disease runs in their family or they know that type two diabetes runs in their family or whatever that thing is. That’s important information to have so they can make good decisions about that. My oldest admitted during high school that one of the things that rattles around in his head when he’s deciding whether or not to have a beer is Ooh, you know my mom and my grandparents and my other grandparents and all that, all those people, and that just became a part of his calculus of decision-making, which is important.

19:21 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and I mean that’s how we’re equipping I almost said students, kids to make, I mean, and students, right, for anybody who’s an educator. This is how we are equipping kids to make the best choice. You know, because I think about, I’m not a parent, but I sure as hell know kids, right, like with all my years of teaching and I really do think that what really helped me the most with the toughest students and everything was just being really open, honest and transparent. Like they, they eat it up and they really respect the hell out of an adult who can just be honest, right.

19:51 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
So it’s amazing the minute I admit that I I am so sorry. I promised I would look this thing up for you last night and it completely escaped me. I won’t make that mistake. Same mistake again, like that’s how you earn the trust of adolescents and admitting that you don’t get it right all of the time is and modeling how you react to that is so important. So I’m so glad you said that.

20:12 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Well, and actually and that brings me to one of the questions that I had prepared for you as well, because one of the things that has come up as an issue sometimes with other sober parents that I do know is if they have had a relapse right, and so their child was aware of their problem with drinking, the child was aware of them stopping, and then the child witnesses that they’ve relapsed right, and how do you come back from that with your child in terms of rebuilding trust and just even approaching that conversation, Because I know that that has been really, really difficult for some families. So if you could speak to that, that would be great.

20:49 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Oh my gosh, relapse discussions are the scariest. And there’s the problem is is you know, add, take the shame and stigma and guilt that we have from having an issue with alcohol in the first place and then compound it when you come, when it comes to like relapse place, and then compound it when you come when it comes to like relapse. But understanding, especially especially if we put our heads in the in the, in the space of what, what recovery is like for kids. Relapse is a part of younger people going through recovery and a relapse is a very big part of a lot of adults recovery as well, and so I’ve felt that it’s really, really important that our response be okay. But what did we learn from this?

21:29
And when you share that with kids as well and you say, you know, sometimes when people get better, sometimes they’ll get better for a while and then they’ll kind of not, and this happens with lots of illnesses, sometimes people will get better for a little bit and then they’ll have a little, they’ll step back for a little bit and then you can start getting better again, because you learn what happened from that little period where you weren’t getting better, and I’ve learned some stuff, and now I’m even more prepared to be healthy and for a lot of people.

21:58
A friend of mine relapsed during COVID and she now says that she doesn’t think that she was ever really truly sober that first time around, like she wasn’t drinking but her headspace was still in a very sort of just a hair away from drinking the whole time. And it wasn’t until she relapsed and really learned where her head is when she’s in that place, where she’s using drinking to compensate for other things, and so that’s the way she talked about it with her kids. You know I’m I’m even stronger this time around because of the things I learned from when I had a misstep.

22:34 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, and I think that that that is so important again, both to break down the stigma, because I think there there can be the stigma that if you don’t have this perfect linear sobriety where I’ve decided to stop and stayed stopped for years, that there’s something wrong with how you are recovering Right. And I think that being able to recognize like, hey, I’m learning something from this and I’m going to do even better, moving forward, I think that that can be really powerful for kids.

23:00 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Absolutely.

23:01 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
And what about with children, though, who maybe you haven’t had any slips or any setbacks? But your children hold your drinking against you or your previous drug use against you, and it’s just like it’s really angered them and they. They don’t trust you, they haven’t let it go and they don’t believe that this is real. Any suggestions for parents like that?

23:21 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Oh, I would have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m just joking. So my mom has. I haven’t really talked about this publicly, but my mom feels appropriate to share, so I’m going to go ahead and share.

23:34
My mom has dementia and to me dementia short-term memory loss feels a lot like drunk right the forgetting, like not being able to hold a train of thought. So when my mom first got dementia I used to get angry with her and I had no idea why. I could not figure it out. Like why am I getting mad? It’s not her fault. And then it just sort of I realized it in the middle of the night one time and the next morning I went downstairs and I said you know what? I had no idea I was doing this, but I realized I’ve been getting angry with you because when you forget things it makes me feel like a little kid. When you were drunk it feels exactly the same for me and I’m so sorry and I’m so grateful to you for having gotten sober, because it means more to me than I can ever express. And we’ve not. It’s. What’s so weird is I’ve never gotten mad at her again about forgetting things.

24:25
It was like that got out there, so having, I think, that openness and being able to talk about things, the more my mom and I or whatever I have lots of relatives who are in recovery as well and lots of relatives who aren’t the more we talk about it, the less freighted, the less weighted the whole entire conversation is, and the more the anger can slip away and the more the distrust can slip away.

24:50
And you know, I think the best thing to do is say you know, we can never 100% trust anybody that they’re not going to hurt us or that they’re not going to be, because we’re not perfect beings it’s just not what humans are. But I promise you that I love you and I love myself enough that I’m going to show up and I’m going to try every single day to be the best parent that I can be for you, and part of that is is not drinking or not using, and that’s just something I have to do every single day is having that conversation gives your kids opportunities to reflect back to you things that they may not be able to write at first, but my kids are old enough now that they reflect back to me, now that they know people who have parents who are active drinkers or active users, how appreciative they are that I show up for them as a parent, and how different things could have been if I hadn’t. I don’t know that I’d be alive if I hadn’t, so that’s a very clear line right there.

25:52 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Absolutely, and I think that that’s incredibly helpful. Again, just that reminder that we’re not going to be perfect and it might be having to have that conversation with our kids, right, like I’m not going to be perfect, I’m going to do my best every single day, and you, like I’m not going to be perfect, I’m going to do my best every single day, and you know, I just think that that’s a really important reminder because, again, recovery it really isn’t linear and there’s sometimes people think that you, you decide to stop drinking and you’re magically done forever, and that’s not necessarily the case for many people. So that’s a really great reminder.

26:22
Coming back to sort of the summer idea, in chapter two of your book, the Addiction Inoculation, there was one line where you mentioned that it was addressing the why behind the first might stop kids from telling the story of their worst day, and I thought that that was really really, really powerful, like the addressing the why. I’m coming to that because another conversation that I have a lot with fellow sober adults, especially with kids, we talk about adverse childhood experiences, right, and sometimes what I notice is that we can totally fixate A on the ACEs that we went through, but then also again on the ACEs that we put our kids through, so to speak. But you also talk a lot about positive factors for children, and so could you speak a little bit to that, like, what are these positive impacts that parents can make for them?

27:17 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, what was so interesting in writing this book is I started seeing all the risk factors I was going to possibly heap on my kids all over the place. So like, as I mentioned, summer and the gap between middle school and high school is a really risky time for kids and my daughter. We moved my daughter in between middle school and high school and and she’s also queer, so like I was seeing like risk factors all over the place. We moved her during this delicate transitional time and she’s and she’s on this, she’s LGBTQ plus T, all the things plus and there. And I’m just heaping all this risk on my kid.

28:00
And I was on the phone interviewing Dan Siegel, who is, if you want to read a book on the adolescent brain, his book is absolutely the Teenage Brain is or actually that’s not what it is, but Dan Siegel’s book on the teenage brain is fantastic. And he said you know, you could view everything as a risk factor and all this bad stuff you’re heaping on your kid, or you could sort of reframe that and start thinking about some of the opportunities that you’re giving your kids. So, for example, the adolescent brain is just craves, novelty craves, new experiences, because that’s the function of the adolescent brain right Is to try new things and to figure out who they are in the context of all these new life experiences, and moving presents your kid with all these amazing new experiences. That and moving presents your kid with all these amazing new experiences that they can learn how to master. And, by the way, mastery and developing competence gets the dopamine going in the brain and helps build self-efficacy, which is one of the other most amazing protective factors for kids against substance use.

29:02
So there is this tendency to look at all of the whether it’s divorce and separation or you know, some of the really really common adverse childhood experiences that are on the list, whether it’s the CDC’s list or the list that Nadine Burke Harris put together for the Deepest Well, which, from my in my opinion, is one of the most important books we could read about adverse childhood experiences is that if we look at those and we say, yeah, those are challenges and that’s important that we do early intervention for those challenges and it’s important we talk to our kids about those challenges. But here are all the opportunities that the stumbles, the difficulties, the risk factors that happen to kids as they get older can present as well and to help kids learn to reframe. Lisa DeMora does a beautiful job in her book Under Pressure helping give scripts to help adults reframe stress for kids, because kids are like they like to blow the stress up. So it’s all toxic stress, it’s so much.

30:08
But Lisa has this great way of talking about the fact that stress some stress is really really positive. It helps motivate us, it helps us moving forward, it helps give us drive. You know, as a writer I impose self-imposed deadlines for myself because having deadlines makes me a better writer, even though it puts more pressure on me. All of these things that we can do to help kids reframe some of the difficulties in their life and help use those and become more competent in the context of those is going to be really, really great for kids. There’s a lot of really great books about that. Dopamine Nation by Anna Lemke is another book where she talks about that as well.

30:49 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
And you know, reframing is so important for us as adults as well, because it can be so easy to look at a setback and go down a whole spiral and make ourselves convinced that our lives are absolutely miserable and like, yes, life is. But I think being able to look at incidents and reframe them and see what can we get out of these situations, versus what are these situations just taking away from us, can be really powerful, and building that skill up in a child is going to help them so much more just as they grow.

31:14 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
So I when you were talking about relapse. By the way, one of the things that I meant to add on and then this, this question, segues beautifully into it which is I talked to my kids about why I drank and the the quote that you gave about talking to kids about that first drink, that’s from Chris Herron. He was a Boston Celtic. He was addicted to opioids for a long time. He’s also a substance use prevention speaker. He’s fantastic. But you know, what I do is I have anxiety disorder, I have social anxiety, and so does my daughter, and so one of the things I say to my daughter is you know, one of the reasons I drank was because it was so freaking scary for me to go out and like, go to a party and not feel imposter syndrome and not worry that everyone thought that I was, you know, stupid or an idiot or shouldn’t be there or whatever. But when I and so I drank at it because I didn’t want to feel that or you know things that made me feel bad, I drank at those things and my anxiety was a big one. But when I stopped drinking, I had to actually develop tools, actual tools, to help me with that anxiety, and now I have actual tools that really help me and in having those conversations in addiction and inoculation, for example, I talked about like mindfulness practices and my daughter totally had disdain for the mindfulness practices that I tried to get her to engage in, that I talked about in the addiction inoculation. But she has, on her own, figured out that she does need mindfulness practices of her own, the ones that she has selected in order to help her with her anxiety as well. So that’s been talking to them and saying you know, I didn’t just drink because it was fun, I drank because I didn’t want to feel these bad feelings. And it wasn’t until I stopped drinking that I actually learned how to manage those bad feelings instead of just drinking them away. And that doesn’t actually make them go away. If anything, it makes them get worse.

33:10
So that’s another thing that my daughter or my son, both of my kids have in their quiver back here that when they need to take out evidence about like, okay, when should I choose to drink here? Should I choose not to drink here? They can say, oh yeah, why am I drinking? Oh, cause I’m feeling some anxiety and I have some tools to deal with that. You know it’s not always quite that linear and logical. But they listen to us and they, they watch us, and so when parents say like, oh, does this mean I can’t drink in front of my kids? I never said that, but what I will say is that the reasons we give for why we drink when we do drink in front of kids, if you say things like oh, this was the worst day at work, I need a drink, or Thanksgiving at grandma’s house is going to be there. Better, be enough wine there. This is going to be a long day. When we say things like that to kids, what we’re telling them, what we’re showing them, is, if I have emotions that are unpleasant to me, I drink at them.

34:08
So we need to talk first about that messaging that we’re sending kids about why we drink and why we drink in certain situations, and that all kind of hangs together with having healthy responses to the bad emotions that we feel.

34:22 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
I love that and I love that that. Just that question to ask yourself like why am I considering drinking right now? So, with that being said, I love those examples of the context, right, the context in which it matters what would you say would be an example of choosing to drink, that would again, I know we’re both sober, but if this was a person who did not have a problematic relationship with alcohol they wanted a model to their kids Like this is drinking. That is likely not going to take me down on a downward. What might be an example of an okay reason to drink for an adult who is not struggling with addiction.

35:02 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Yeah, so there’s evidence to show this is in the college chapter. There’s evidence to show that when people drink in order to not feel the bad feelings, or they withdraw and drink, or they drink alone, or they’re drinking because they’re depressed or they’re drinking because they want to isolate, those sorts of that kind of drinking is more likely to result in a problem. So, for example, in women and anxiety, we know that women who drink and have anxiety are actually more likely than not to have an issue with that alcohol over the long term. If you are drinking because you’re already happy and you’re with other people and you’re drinking to sort of elevate that experience, then that tends to be less problematic just over the long term. And that’s, you know, it’s always.

35:51
I always hate saying stuff like that because then I give my. I would have given myself all kinds of ammunition for places that it’s totally cool for me to drink, and it wasn’t until I saw that there were no contexts in which it was cool for me to drink, that I sort of got that through my head. But I think that’s a really great question. That’s a really good question.

36:10 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Right For sure For those of us in recovery, we know, but you know there are the folks who aren’t might be listening to this and it’s just you know they’re like, well, what about? What about me? So another part of your text that jumped out at me, and again, this, really, this is really more the teacher in me. So in chapter seven of the addiction inoculation, you are talking about kids and their friends and just how important, right these relationships are and I mean, oh my goodness, they sure are.

36:39
One of the things that you brought up is that sometimes children might have to break up with certain types of friends. And I guess my question because I have never in my life seen a good like friendship breakup with an adolescent. So I was just kind of curious how would you support that? Like, let’s say, when a friend, when there’s two friends and one of them is just needing the space to protect themselves from the other one, how do we support our kids and having those conversations? Because so many of us as adults can’t even. I mean people ghost each other all the time because they don’t know how to have these conversations. So how does a kid make space for themselves so that they can be safe?

37:22 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
You’re asking such good questions. This actually extends back a little bit further. I’ve done when I used to write for the New York Times and the Atlantic and somewhere in there I’d written an article about the fact that, you know, the function of friendship sort of morphs over time. You know, when kids are really little it’s because our parents are friends and so it’s just proximity. You know they want us to be friends, we’re friends, and then as you get older it has to do with sort of trying out different identities, like, oh, that person seems new and interesting and might have some things about them that I might want to take on. And then you hang out with them for a while and you realize, oh, some of that is for me and some of that’s not, and stuff like that, as your kid is going through that, because that trying on identities things freaks parents out right, because if suddenly your kid is hanging out with a kid that seems dangerous or reckless or has tattoos or whatever you want to say like do not, you can’t hang out with that person. And of course we know when we tell a kid that that’s the one person they’re going to want to hang out with. But if you’re constantly talking to your kids about what makes good friendships and I’m talking about for myself as well, like when I talk to my kids a lot about the fact that one of the things I love about getting older is that my friendships are about supporting each other and making each other better, and I don’t have any friendships now that are about tearing each other down. I want all of my friends to succeed and to be better people.

38:48
And if you find that I, if I were to find that I’m, you know, friends with someone who sort of took some delight in my screwing up or not doing so well that I might have to say, huh, that doesn’t seem like a really healthy relationship. And on the other side, what you say to your kids like if they’re going out with if you find that a particular relationship is weighing on your kid, you can say you know what, when you go to so-and-so’s house, you know you just come home kind of sad and I’m wondering what it is about that relationship that makes you feel that way. Or going to that person’s house and having these conversations from a really young age about what makes for good relationships that make us better and what makes for bad relationships that make us sad. That is a great entry point to these conversations. So if your kid has to break up with someone especially when it’s a positive move although we do want to keep our judgment out of it as much as possible Supporting them and saying you know, if this friendship is making you unhappy, then I am so proud of you for drawing that line and saying I can’t be a part of relationship that’s bringing me down.

39:55
I’m so proud of you for that. And even if someone is not going down the right road with someone, find moments that you can say to them you know, you know it just seems like you’re having trouble with this person and maybe taking some space from them is a really good idea. And I’m really proud of you for sort of having the wherewithal to think about a little bit of space from this thing that seems to make you really sad. Because you know if we put our judgment into it then that can really make things go in the wrong direction really quickly. But when we’re saying how proud we are of the way they’re managing the parts that make them healthier and make them better, then they’re usually pretty responsive to that.

40:36 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
And so and then there might also be the case and I’m curious about how do you support a child in this case. Like, let’s say, there’s two kiddos again and one of them might actually be struggling with substance and the other one wants to still be their friend and be supportive, how do you help that child still be present for the friend who’s struggling with an addiction?

40:59 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Well, as you know, that is very much what chapter seven is about. My son who’s now 25, wanted to stay friends with a kid who was really struggling and had been kicked out of school and was having to go to rehab. And it was really scary for me as a parent, because I know the statistics are clear that if your kid’s friends use, your kid is more likely to use, and so I said, okay, well, I’m so proud of you for wanting to support your friend because he’s going to need support and this is a really hard time for him. On the other hand, I know that if your friends use that, you are going to be more likely to use. So we’re going to have a lot of conversations about this.

41:39
I’m going to be checking in with you more often and in a way, it made it easier to have those conversations because we could talk about his friend, brian, who is so generous to give us his story in the book. That’s his real name. We can talk about what’s happening with Brian, and my son then could use Brian as a proxy for things he wanted to work out. So in the, in a sense, it was almost easier because we were able to talk about the friend. You know, like I have a friend too and you know Ben could stick some things in there that maybe maybe were about him and not about his friend Brian.

42:16
But it made it easier because I had said from the beginning I will 100% support you in this relationship. But because the statistics are so clear, it makes me really scared and it’s my job to keep you as safe as possible, and so we’re going to be talking about this more often. And he was okay with that, yeah, and in the end, as you, as you see in that chapter, in the end, um credits the support of those friends as the factor that made recovery finally really settle in for him. He saw what he had to lose and he’s doing great now, by the way, that is so awesome to hear as a continued follow-up from the book.

42:58 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Um, and I guess, like my other question for you too, is, well, as a parent, as a person, I know like what I had to tap into in terms of to find my courage to be so open and honest about my story. Where did you, where do you get your courage to just be so, to be the cycle breaker? You said in your family nobody talked about anything, and so you know now you want to name things and have these conversations. How do you find this courage? How do you encourage parents, educators, to find this courage within them, to have these courageous conversations?

43:34 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
You know that’s a really good question. I think a lot of it came from being angry that I was not allowed to name things for what they were, as I say in the book. There was like this elephant stomping on our whole family and none of us were allowed to point to it and say that’s an elephant and that was. I got very angry about that and being gaslit was really horrible. No, no, no, that’s not what you’re seeing. I want you to replace your reality with my own and having substance use disorder be at the root of a lot of family chaos. It was exhausting and for me I’ve always been.

44:15
I’m better at holding myself accountable when I’m as honest as possible with as many people as possible, and it was really scary, especially at first. I was still teaching. I thought I’d get fired. I you know I didn’t. I had done some not great things to the people around me and I had. I had a lot of amends to make.

44:36
But being as honest as possible not just whether that was in recovery meetings or with my friends and, you know, letting them know that I needed their help and that I was really sorry All of that stuff sort of has made it easier and easier and easier for me, like there’s no anxiety in me whatsoever when I tell people that I’m in recovery or that, you know, I just celebrated 11 years and that’s something that I’m in this position now where, because I’m public about the fact that I can’t drink, lots of other people talk to me about being scared about their friend or being scared about themselves or being scared about their mom, and I get to be a resource for people.

45:19
And there are people who are now sober, who weren’t when they first started talking to me about this stuff and like that’s. That is way more important in terms of a legacy that we leave to our kids than you know, than just about anything else I can think of in terms of like work and all that stuff that we think is so important, but, you know, than just about anything else I can think of in terms of like work and all that stuff that we think is so important. But you know, some of the people that are sober now, that weren’t before, have families and those are their kids aren’t going to have to do. You know, there’s there’s just so many dominoes that fall when one person gets well, and I just see that as an incredible privilege, and I never, ever take that for granted. So I think that’s a big part of why I talk about it so much.

46:03 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Right. Like we, we never know who we’re impacting when we, when we speak openly about our, our journey. So congratulations on 11 years. That’s awesome, Thank you. And so when we have somebody who we are suspecting, like, let’s say, if we are suspecting that there is, our child has a problem. I guess what might be some of the signs for a parent again, summer’s here, kids are home around more what might be a sign that there is a problem, versus say it was just like a one-time use, and what might be the best way for a parent to approach that conversation with the child. You know, I I’m aware of say, like different rehabs and things like that.

46:42
But you know I feel like I’ve read mixed things about like how rehab can be a very traumatizing experience for a child. I’ve gone as an adult so I can only imagine how scary it would be for a teen. So just any thoughts that you have about that.

46:55 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Yeah, this is a big big. There’s so so much to talk about here. What’s so scary about treatment for kids is that treatment for kids does not look the same as treatment for adults, and it’s the places that have figured that out that do a really, really good job at that, like Hazelden, for example, in Minnesota has its own adolescent treatment center. That’s just fantastic, because they’ve figured out that the same tools we use for adults don’t necessarily work for kids as well. So if you’re worried about your kid, the big baseline question for all the like when should I get concerned? Questions whether that’s you know, for any reason is change like change from baseline sleep, less sleep, more sleep, like change from baseline less sleep, more sleep, mood changes, appetite changes, all of those things, and that includes for the positive.

47:46
So if you have a kid who has been really, really depressed and then suddenly they’re just happy as a clam all the time and your temptation would be to look at that and go, oh, don’t question that gift, that’s fantastic. But there are a whole lot of reasons that a kid can have big mood swings and one of the reasons could possibly be and there are lots of other ones, you know using addictive substances. But, like the sleep thing is a big issue. You know, appetite, mood changes, things like that. Anytime we see a change, then it’s important to start asking about. You know, sweetie, this is interesting because for a while you seemed really down and and suddenly now you seem like really really up and really happy. What are these? What are the reasons for that? You know what’s what’s got you, you know, headed in either direction, one or the other, and talking about that, you know, in a relaxed way, maybe around dinner, that kind of thing.

48:38
And then if you really do think that your kid a really great resource for your kid, you need look no further than your child’s primary care physician. So a lot of primary care physicians now pediatricians, you know, rns, that kind of thing use these screening tools. A big one, for example, is called SBIRT Screening, brief Intervention, referral to Treatment. So when your kid goes to the pediatrician or whatever, you could even front load that conversation with the primary care physician and say I’m a little worried about my kid and substances, could you make sure you hit that on your screening questions? You, you know, make sure you hit that on your screening questions. And physicians, these screening tools have become so important that the American Academy of Pediatrics has recommended that they’re used for all kids and there and physicians can be really really great resources for helping figure out where you are on that line between like, is this, you know, experimentation or is this becoming problematic? And they’re they’re well-equipped to handle those questions as well.

49:44 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
That’s really great and I actually remember now in your text you suggest also like giving your child a little bit of privacy when they’re having that yes. So the provider can ask them those questions without your child worrying that you’re going to be there like eyeing them down.

49:59 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Often it’s on like a tablet and they’ll. It’s the same thing Like. I just went to the physician recently and I had a whole page on. You know, do I feel safe at home? You know what are my drinking habits? That kind of thing. Give your kid a little bit of privacy when they answer those questions and, especially as your kid gets older, they do need time alone with that physician, especially as they hit puberty, to start asking questions about things that they may not want to ask about in front of you. Just give your kid the opportunity. Is there any, you know? Do you want me to go and so you can have some time to talk with your doctor all by yourself and you don’t need to make it a big deal, but it’s going to be increasingly important as they get older.

50:37 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, yeah, no, super, super, super helpful Cause I think like I wouldn’t even have thought about using a physician to help doing to help do a screener. So that’s super helpful. Well, I mean, jess, my last question really is because, again, I think a lot of parents who I know and adore, um, they, they really do feel that they’ve just caused this irreparable harm.

50:59 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Yeah.

51:00 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Right. And so what? What hope can you give someone who’s listening to this so that they know that you know, I mean, I know that as long as we have breath we can change, but you also are the master of research and data, and so what can you share with anyone listening who’s really worried that they’ve just like screwed up their kid and like they don’t know that anything could go right moving forward?

51:22 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Yeah, so my kids, great kids, so many risk factors. You know there’s um, but here’s the cool thing about prevention. So I, when I talk about getting to a place where you know when, when you start to have that sneaking suspicion that you may need help, and, um, when you finally get to the place where you’re able to ask sneaking suspicion that you may need help, and when you finally get to the place where you’re able to ask for help, that I think of that as like a 100 piece puzzle, right, and my dad happened to be piece 100. That fell into place at the right time, when I was in the right headspace when he said, you know, I know what an alcoholic looks like, and you’re an alcoholic and you need help. And I was like, yeah, I do, that was my 100th piece. But in order for the 100th piece to slide into place and we are hardly ever the 100th piece, we’re often like piece 37, piece 62, piece 81. All of those pieces need to be in place in order to get that piece 100 in place.

52:16
And this prevention stuff are pieces. So many pieces come through the prevention stuff, whether that’s about, like I said, about how the adolescent brain works, what we put in our bodies all that sort of stuff, and so I can’t guarantee. I’m like an expert on this, an expert on substance use prevention in kids, and yet I cannot guarantee that my children will not have a problem with substances once they get older. But I do know that I’ve put a lot of pieces into their individual puzzles, and so we talk all the time about the difference between occasional use and looking forward to it at the end of the week just a little bit too much, and maybe when the end of the week becomes Thursday, and then when the end of the week just a little bit too much, and maybe when the end of the week becomes Thursday, and then when the end of the week becomes Wednesday, and all that sort of stuff that is a little scary to talk about with kids.

53:06
I have to because my kids are at an elevated genetic risk. Genetics is about 50 to 60% of the risk picture. My kids are at elevated risk. My kids have other risk factors on top of their genetics. I can’t afford to not have these conversations because I need my kids to have as many pieces of their puzzle in place as possible to a either prevent they’re having a problem in the first place, or B to help them get to a place where they need help. They know they need help and can ask for it If they do go down that road. I just don’t want that to suffer as long as I did.

53:40 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, absolutely, and that’s for any young people in our lives, right, like whether or not we have kids again, I don’t, but I have my nieces and these really open, honest conversations make a huge, huge, huge difference.

53:52 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Being the auntie, by the way, that is one of the greatest pleasures of my life. My sister has two children. My sister does not have a problem with alcohol. She got very lucky, came from the same genetics, but she got lucky. But her daughters are still at elevated risk and so I am. I’m just the addiction auntie, like I talk to them about it all the time.

54:12
When my oldest niece moved to Los Angeles, I helped her find resources for harm reduction. I helped her find naloxone. I helped her find naloxone. I helped her find fentanyl test strips, not because I want her to go out and use drugs and think she’s going to need a fentanyl test strip, but because if she’s going to be around people who are using drugs, these are the tools that she needs. She may never use them and that’s fine. But I want her to have Narcan in case she goes to a party and someone uses an overdoses. Then she has it. So having a having another adult in their life who can talk about this if you find it too difficult to talk about, that’s great too. It doesn’t have to be always you. It could be auntie Jess, or it could be uncle Peter, it could be. You know, there are lots of people who can be resources for your kids.

55:00 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
For sure it takes a village. You know, when I was a classroom teacher, right Like there was my, my parents and then my impact and like together we really did have to work to to help the kiddos. So, yeah, well, jessica, it has been amazing. Yay, I’m so glad that you made it again. I love books and a lot of people who listen to my podcast love books, and so I hope that everyone will check out the addiction inoculation. I actually listened to it and listening to it was really fun because I can. Obviously, I can totally tell you’re a teacher, so you read it Like it’s listen. Um, so really, whether someone checks it out like on audible or grabs a hard copy, um, definitely check it out. There’s just so much to it, and so, whether you’re a parent and educator or you just have, like young people in your life that you want to take care of, and I give you one more recommendation that one of the questions I get most often is is there a book like the addiction inoculation, but for adolescents?

55:56 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
And while I would absolutely love to write that book, I don’t need to, because there is a wonderful book out there and it’s called High and it’s by David Sheff and Nick Sheff. David Sheff was the guy who wrote Beautiful Boy about his son, nick, who is the beautiful boy who became a movie with Steve Carell and Timothee Chalamet, and that book is specifically geared toward adolescents. It’s got it’s. Even the adolescents that I taught in recovery centers, who were so cynical about these things, really liked this book. So get the book. Do not get your parents stink all over it by like handing it to your kid and say, sweetie, read this book for me, would you leave it around? It’s brightly colored, it’s really cool looking, it does not talk down to kids and hopefully they’ll pick it up and read it themselves. So it’s called high. It’s really brightly colored. You can’t miss it. David chef, nick chef fantastic resource.

56:52 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
That’s so awesome. I’m going to grab that book too. Thank you for the recommendation, for sure, absolutely.

56:58 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
Well, although I’ve I’ve heard from a lot of parents who have listened to the addiction inoculation in their car and that they didn’t think their adolescent was listening, but their adolescent was listening and then brought up stuff from the book later. So there are definitely parts that could benefit your adolescent if you’re listening in the car.

57:14 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, I think a lot of times they like to hear what we’re talking about, you know, without acting like they’re actually interested. Yeah, well, awesome, well, jessica, thank you. Thank you so much.

57:28 – Jessica Lahey (Guest)
So welcome. Oh, I’m just, I’m so. I love having these conversations so much because the more we talk about it, the more we all talk about it, the less shame, the less stigma. That we don’t have time for that, it’s just. This conversation is too important. We have to get rid of all that stuff.

57:51 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
So thank you so much for raising the whole conversation in the first place, but also go to my website, bottomless to sobercom, and find out other opportunities to work with me, from free workshops to writing classes to one-to-one life coaching opportunities. You can schedule a free consultation for that. Everything is available at bottomless to sobercom. See you then.


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